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Swiss Vetterli Carbines
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M1878 Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine Photo Credit reddit.com
HISTORICAL CONTEXT
For a discussion of the Historical Context in which Switzerland found itself in the latter half of the 19the Century, please see: M1869 & M1869/71 Swiss Vetterlis.
DEVELOPMENT
The design and development of Switzerland’s various specialty Vetterli rifles naturally followed the design developments and evolution of the country’s primary infantry rifles. The earliest carbines were fielded not long after the rifles themselves began being manufactured. And the last stutzers and carbines were built only at the tail end of Vetterli manufacture. And while the rifles were withdrawn concurrently as the follow-on Schmidt-Rubin rifles were being fielded, some carbines continued to serve until nearly the dawn of the 20th century.
From Die Handfeuerwaffen, Schmidt, Rudolf, 1875, 1968.jpg Note the depictions of the M1871 Repetiergewehr and cut-away of a M1871 Repetierstutzer as well as tools and accoutrements
THE VETTERLI CARBINES
The accurate identification of Swiss Vetterli carbines can be among the most frustrating quests in all of black powder cartridge military long arm collecting. Truly authoritative sources are difficult to come by, although one in particular, Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli is notable along with Die Repetiergewehre der Schweiz Die Systeme Vetterli und Schmidt-Rubin , both of which are referenced below. Most unfortunately, we have not been able to find a copy of Die Repetiergewehre der Schweiz in order to fully reconfirm some of the information below.
Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli lists with detailed information the first six carbines discussed in detail below. However, you will note that we are aware of at least one additional variety that is not explicitly discussed in any of our sources but is almost certainly a legitimate Swiss arms factory product.
Overall note that those Swiss carbines built for Swiss Dragoon service were all new-made arms, while carbines for police and border guard service tend to be re-manufactured from stores of older existing infantry rifles and retain the markings of the rifles from which they were derived (most often stores of M1869/71 infantry rifles after the adoption of the M1878 rifles).
Of course there are multiple unlikely, ‘homemade’ or one-off alterations as well and we briefly discuss some of those at the end of this Carbines section. We illustrate for educational purposes only, several such “carbines” which are certainly one-off cut-down rifles in various shapes of carbines.
M1871 Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine Type II (Schweizerischer Repetierkarabiner Modell 1871 Type II)
M1869/71 Swiss Vetterli Reconstructed Carbine (Schweizerischer Repetierkarabiner Konstruktion zwischen 1869-71)
M1878 Swiss Vetterli Border Guard Carbine (Schweizerischer Repetierkarabiner Modell 1878 für Grenzwächterkorps)
A not positively Identified Carbine version that we denominate: M1895 Swiss Vetterli Border Guard Carbine (Schweizerischer Repetierkarabiner Modell 1878 für Grenzwächterkorps) (we made that up until we know for sure!)
REQUEST FOR INFORMATION AND PHOTOS:
If any reader has additional information that would shed light on this exploration of Swiss Vetterli carbines, we would appreciate receiving from you any information which you might be willing to share.
M1870 Swiss Vetterli Police Carbine
(Schweizerischer Repetierkarabiner Modell ca. 1870 für Polizei)
Swiss Vetterli Repeater Carbine Model 1870 for Police, Photo from Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli
Some seven shot “carbines” (actually 45in long compared with only 36.6in for the Repetierkarabiner M1871 discussed below) were made for cantonal police in the early 1870’s.
The assumption that these are weapons for the police is supported by old brochures from the Swiss Industrial Company Neuhausen (SIG). Archival information about their use is still completely missing. Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli (References, below) offers that the presence of a sling swivel on the front band could indicate that the carbine was intended to be worn under a cape.
Note that later examples with the design features of the M1878 carbine position the upper sling swivel on the middle band.
REQUEST: We have not yet located a photo of this Swiss carbine. If any reader could help with this quest we would be most appreciative.
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES
M1870 Police Carbine
This version Swiss Police Carbine, although referred to as a carbine, is more short rifle length at 45 inches long overall. Its checkered forestock is retained by a barrel band and nosecap. It was built with a rotating receiver dust cover akin to the M1870 Italian Vetterli rifle and the M1870 Vetterli Cadet rifle, as well as the loading gate cover of the early Swiss Vetterli infantry rifles. Sling swivels are positioned below the front barrel band/nosecap and along the lower comb of the buttstock. Notice also that the rear sight is the M1863 sight, closely similar to the M1867 Swiss Peabody rear sight, with sight leaf shorter than the M1869 Swiss Vetterli infantry rifle.
BAYONET
The Vetterli Police Carbine was not stocked completely to the muzzle and was therefore fully able to accept the M1863 and M1871 Swiss spike socket bayonet of the M1867 Swiss Peabody and M1869 and M1869/71 Swiss Vetterli rifles.
MANUFACTURING DATA
Total production is unknown to us.
M1870 SPECIFICATIONS, STATISTICS & DATA
Overall Length: 1144 mm (45 in)
Barrel Length: 737 mm (29 in)
Weight, empty: 4.06 kg
Rifling: 4-groove; RH, concentric
Magazine: Tube magazine under barrel, 7+1 round capacity
Sight: M1863 Quadrant sight, “similar to the M1867 Swiss Peabody” graduated from 100 schritt (75m - 82 yds) to 800 schritt (600m – 656 yds)
M1871 Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine Type I
(Schweizerischer Repetierkarabiner Modell 1871 Type I)
The Swiss Vetterli Type I Dragoon Carbine, Photo from: Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli (References, below)
Dragoon soldiers were a class of mounted infantry, not wholly unlike the mounted infantry of today, except that they used horses for enhanced mobility and then dismounted to close with and engage the enemy on foot. The establishment of dragoons evolved from the practice of sometimes transporting troops by horse when speed of movement was needed.
From the early 17th century onward, dragoons were increasingly also employed as conventional cavalry able to fight on horseback with both swords and firearms. Most European armies employed dragoons in the 17th and 18th centuries, although they fell out of favor as a specific class of soldier by the beginning of the 20th century.
The Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine is also sometimes referred to as a Swiss “cavalry carbine” and, while not outright wrong, is incorrect as for Switzerland, the troops equipped with this arm were tasked with carrying out duties more in line with mobile infantry than cavalry per se.
REQUEST: We have not yet located a photo of this Swiss carbine. If any reader could help with this quest we would be most appreciative.
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES
M1871 Swiss Dragoon Carbine Type I
The initial run of Dragoon carbines featured a bolt handle that does not have the typical Swiss Vetterli ball end but is merely rounded, and is more pear-shaped and thickened. As were the earliest M1869 Vetterli infantry rifles, this carbine was also manufactured with a magazine cut-off lever on the left side of the receiver and loading gate cover on the right side of the receiver.
This model also featured a rotating ejection-port cover similar to that of the M1870 Italian Vetterli rifles and carbines as well as the M1870 Vetterli Cadet rifle and was produced with the early gas vent ports in the top of the receiver ring, later abandoned on all post 1871 Vetterlis.
Early models (this Type I) have a flat straight-edge fore end; that is, the muzzle is flush with the combination, barrel band /nosecap with integral front sight protector, and is without any provision for a bayonet.
Rather than sling swivels, this carbine is fitted with a cavalry-style loop attached to the lower tang. The very first models are reported to have had their bolt handles bent slightly forward.
The rear sight of this version consists of a small standing block set for 225m with folding leaves for 300m and 400m.
The following year a substantially changed Type II (see following) was introduced with a different rear sight. And within a couple more years yet another rear sight, a Schmidt-pattern for carbines, was adopted in 1874 and this third variation rear sight may be found on either Type I or Type II M1871 Dragoon carbines.
None of the Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbines feature finger spurs on their trigger guards, indeed for all of this series the trigger guard is relatively small and smoothly rounded.
A Type II Dragoon Carbine. We have not yet seen nor found any photos of a Type I Dragoon Carbine.
Note the smoothly rounded trigger guard, loading gate cover and carbine rear sight of this ostensibly Vetterli Dragoon Carbine Type II. (Also note that this very nice finish is not likely to be original, and these carbines are very likely to have only had their barrels and rear sight blued, the rest of the steel and iron almost certainly having been left bright.)
MANUFACTURING DATA
It is estimated that only about 200-250 carbines of this early pattern (type I) were made.
SPECIFICATIONS, STATISTICS & DATA
M1871 Swiss Dragoon Carbine Type I
Overall Length: 930 mm (36 5/8 in)
Barrel Length: 470 mm (18.5 in)
Weight, empty: 3.25 kg
Rifling: 4-groove; RH, concentric
Magazine: Tube magazine under barrel, 6+1 round capacity
Rear Sight: Modell System Thury für Karabiner a unique flip-up 2-leaf assembly graduated at 225 m, 300m and 400 (a variant of this sight has a pierced middle blade)
Front sight: Blade protected by wings integral with the front barrel band/nosecap
M1871 Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine Type II
(Schweizerischer Repetierkarabiner Modell 1871 Type II)
This carbine is most likely a Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine Type II, despite missing forestock checkering and its lower tang sling ring.
The year following the introduction of the first Vetterli Dragoon carbines this substantially changed Type II was introduced with a Thury-pattern tangent rear sight graduated at 225-300m (245-330yd) and a revised bolt handle with a more conventional ball knob, and a checkered forend with a notable step.
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES
M1871 Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine Type II
These Dragoon carbines were akin to a combination M1869 and M1869/71 rifle in that they were manufactured with a loading gate cover as the M1869s, but were specifically made without a magazine cut-off lever as the M1869/71 rifles. Like the M69-71 series, they feature a pair of gas venting ports, a bolt handle with ball end, and with a cavalry loop attached to the lower tang like the M1871 Type I carbines (above).
Within just a couple years of introduction of this carbine, yet another rear sight, a Schmidt-pattern rear sight for carbines, was adopted in 1874, and this third variation rear sight may be found on either Type I or Type II M1871 Dragoon carbines.
This rear sight is identified in Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli (References, below) as being a M1871 Dragoon Carbine Type I pattern rear sight (see above) but is found on the carbine pictured here, which Handfeuerwaffen clearly suggests is a Type II Dragoon carbine. Reminder that identification of Swiss Vetterli Carbines is fraught with contradictions!
This Pfenninger manufactured Vetterli Dragoon Carbine Type II has been retrofitted with the post 1874 Schmidt-pattern rear sight for carbines but is distinguished bfrom the M1878 Dragoon carbine by its receiver ring gas vents and its builder.
MANUFACTURING DATA
3,050 of the two types of 1871 models were produced. The private gunworks of Rudolf Pfenninger, Stäffe manufactured 2,400 M1871 Vetterli carbines between 1872 and 1874, and Eidgenössische Waffenfabrik built 712 in 1876 to 1879. This would bring total production of Types I and Types II of 3,112.
We cannot account for the disparity of different reported total production numbers.
SPECIFICATIONS, STATISTICS & DATA
M1871 Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine Type II
Overall Length: 930 mm (36 5/8 in)
Barrel Length: 470 mm (18.5 in)
Weight, empty: 3.25 kg
Rifling: 4-groove; RH, concentric
Magazine: Tube magazine under barrel, 6+1 round capacity
Rear Sight: Modell System Thury für Karabiner: Also a unique rear sight with positions for 225m and 300m
Front sight: Blade protected by wings integral with the front barrel band/nosecap
M1869/71 Swiss Vetterli Reconstructed Carbine
(Schweizerischer Repetierkarabiner Konstruktion zwischen 1869-71)
[Possibly for the Border Guard Corps]
A “M1871 “Reconstructed” Swiss Vetterli Carbine
A series of Swiss Vetterli repeating carbines were created by shortening M1869/71Vetterli rifles specifically. While no archival information has yet been found regarding their issuance and application, it appears likely that they were rifles for the Border Guard Corps (but this remains somewhat conjecture. Nevertheless, its slings and swivels would suggest that it is likely.
Regardless of specific application, there are comparatively numerous examples of these very well made carbines indicating that they are virtually certainly Swiss government-correct armory modifications.
From the limited examples that we have seen, it appears that one of the primary contractors for producing these carbines was W. von Steiger, Thun. All examples examined thus far have originated from W. von Steiger m1869/71 rifles.
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES
M1869/71 Vetterli Reconstructed Carbine
Reconstructed Swiss Vetterli carbines began life as a M1869/71 Vetterli infantry rifle. All of the examples that we have seen are rebuilt from M1869/71 Vetterli rifles and thus have no provision for either loading gate or magazine cut-off. Further, they are all equipped with the M1869/71 rear sight with sight leaf supported by a small nipple on the underside of the leaf.
These carbines are converted by shortening the stock to remove the rifle’s upper barrel band and shortening the barrel to just over 19 inches. The front sight is repositioned, of course and the original cleaning rod is shortened appropriately. Magazine capacity is reduced to 6+1.
MARKINGS
M1869/71 Vetterli Reconstructed Carbine
Because the Reconstructed Carbine was not manufactured originally as such a carbine but converted from a rifle, it will continue to carry its original rifle markings on both the left receiver flat, the left side of the barrel below the rear sight, and partial serial numbers around the rest of the arm.
No new markings appear to have been added to this series of carbines that would distinguish it from its parent rifle other than the physical modifications to shorten it.
The Repetierkarabiner Konstruktion zwischen continues to carry its original infantry rifle markings.
A Reconstructed ‘Border Carbine’ (from www.swissrifles.com)
BAYONET
The Repetierkarabiner Konstruktion zwischen relocates the front barrel band/nosecap of the underlying parent rifle to within an inch of the new muzzle, but without the bayonet lug of the later M1878 Vetterli infantry rifles, and thus this carbine is unable to take any of the “standard” issue Swiss bayonets and is not known to have been issued for use with any bayonet.
MANUFACTURING DATA
Currently Unknown.
SPECIFICATIONS, STATISTICS & DATA
M1869/71 Vetterli Reconstructed Carbine
Overall Length: 946 mm (37 ¼ in)
Barrel Length: 486 mm (19 1/8 in)
Weight, empty: 3.90 kg
Rifling: 4-groove; RH, concentric
Magazine: Tube magazine under barrel, 6+1 round capacity
Sight: Quadrant Modell 1871 graduated from 225m (246 yds) to 1,350m (1,476 yds)
M1878 Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine
(Schweizerischer Repetierkarabiner Modell 1878)
A nice example of the M1878 Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine
It is beyond me why the M1878 the Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbines would be manufactured and issued with so many of the features of the earliest M1869 Vetterli rifles, but here we are. These were not converted rifles but, like the earlier M1871 Dragoon Carbines, were purpose-built carbines.
This carbine was carried by Swiss Dragoons. From 1895 onwards numbers of these carbines were also issued to the Border Guard Corps.
“280 examples of these carbines were later given a sling loop on the upper band.”
~ Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli
From 1895 M1878 Dragoon Carbines were also issued to the Grenzwächterkorps (Border Guard Corp) when supplies of the purpose-built Modell 1878 für Grenzwächterkorps (see below) were exhausted.
Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli reports that 280 examples of M1878 Dragoon Carbines were altered for use by the Border Guards, these pieces being fitted with an upper sling swivel attached at the upper band/nosecap, but the authors offer no additional information.
Swiss Vetterli Carbines with just such upper band/nosecap sling loops (as distinct from barrel band mounted sling swivels such as those of the M1878 Border Guard Carbine discussed following) are profiled immediately after the entry regarding the M1878 Border Guard Carbine, below.
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES
M1878 Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine
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An excellent example of a Swiss Vetterli M1878 Dragoon Carbine (Photo Credit: Hmaag via Wikipedia)
A 2nd example of a nice Model 1878 Dragoon Carbine, (RepetierKarabiner M1878)
Fascinatingly, despite the use of the earlier form checkered forearm and the loading gate cover this Dragoon Carbine was manufactured without gas ports, like the new M1878 rifles and stutzers.
Like all Swiss Vetterlis (with the sole exception of the Vetterli Cadet Rifles) this Dragoon carbine shared the repeater magazine tube and operating action of Vetterli rifles and stutzers, but was greatly shortened, had a stepped forend, no barrel bands but a heavy nosecap retaining a standard Vetterli cleaning rod. These carbines were not fitted to accept a bayonet. A pivoting loading-gate cover was retained, but like all Dragoon carbines, the spur on the trigger guard was omitted.
Trigger guard and loading gate cover of the M1878 Dragoon Carbine.
There was no forward sling swivel but, like the M1871 series Dragoon Carbines, a sling swivel/loop was fitted to the end of the lower tang.
Lower sling loop of the M1878 Dragoon Carbine. This sling loop is a feature of all of the Swiss Vetterli Dragoon carbines.
BAYONET
These carbines were not fitted to accept a bayonet.
MANUFACTURING DATA
Eidgenössische Waffenfabrik of Bern manufactured 1,000 of these M1878 Vetterli Dragoon Carbines between 1885 and 1889 when all versions of Vetterli production ceased in favor of the new M1889 Schmidt-Rubin infantry rifle. We do not know why this serial number is in the 4000s, unless a “set” of serial numbers were assigned to Eidgenössische Waffenfabrik for use specifically with Carbines as earlier low-production carbines also have 4 digit serial numbers.
SPECIFICATIONS, STATISTICS & DATA
M1878 Swiss Vetterli Dragoon Carbine
Overall Length: 930 mm (36 5/8 in)
Barrel Length: 470 mm (18.5 in)
Weight, empty: 3.25 kg
Rifling: 4-groove; RH, concentric
Magazine: Tube magazine under barrel, 6+1 round capacity
Rear Sight: Quadrant System Schmidt für Karabiner: ranged from 225m to 600m
Front sight: Blade protected by wings integral with the front barrel band/nosecap
M1878 Swiss Vetterli Border Guard Carbine
(Schweizerischer Repetierkarabiner Modell 1878 für Grenzwächterkorps)
A superb example of the m1878 Swiss Vetterli Border Guard Carbine (Photo Credit: user Crofter @Gunboards.com)
The Grenzwachtkorps (Swiss Border Guard Corps) was a federal law enforcement agency that until as late as 2020 acted both as Switzerland's border guard and as its customs service. It was a uniformed and armed part of the Federal Customs Administration. Its mission was prevention, intervention and repression in customs and migration-related matters. It enforced border security and national tariff-related measures.
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES
M1878 Vetterli Border Guard Carbine
This Model 1878 Border-Guard Carbine (Repetier-Karabiner für Grenzwächterkorps, M1878) is a variant with an additional barrel band (carrying the front sling swivel) and a M1878 rifle-type nose cap with integrated bayonet lug. Like the earlier M1871 and M1878 Dragoon Carbines it is still fitted with the loading gate cover of the earliest M1869 Swiss Vetterli rifles.
The rear sight is the Modell 1878 System Schmidt für Karabiner sight also found on the above mentioned Dragoon carbines as well.
Photo credit these photos: antiquefirearms.com
BAYONET
The Model 1878 Border-Guard Carbine was apparently issued with a border guard variant of the M1878 Pioneer bayonet with a shorter (470mm - 18.8 inch) straight back (not sawback) blade with supposedly a fuller on both sides of the blade, however we have not yet seen an example of this bayonet.
As noted elsewhere in these Swiss Vetterli pages (the M1878 & M1881 Swiss Vetterli Rifles) we have yet to see a Swiss M1878 or later “Pioneer” sawback bayonet that is fullered on the left side of the blade. We welcome that opportunity!
In 1887, the Swiss Border Guard Corps ordered 2000 new Vetterli Bayonets. These M1887 bayonets are stamped on the blade with manufacturer, S.J.G. NEUHAUSEN, the year of production, 1887, and the bayonet’s serial number ( from 1 to 2000, not matched to the carbines) on the ricasso of the blade. Inexplicably, despite being manufactured in 1887, the handles of these Border Guard bayonets are nevertheless secured with the four (4) rivets of the M1878 pattern bayonet rather than the three (3) rivets that were utilized in construction of the M1881 and M1887 Swiss Pioneer bayonets.
The M1887 Swiss Vetterli Carbine Pioneer Bayonet Photo Credits: eBay seller brummbaer97-1
MANUFACTURING DATA
We have read that only about 400 of this particular model carbines were made, but that the Border Guards were also later provided with some 280 additional dragoon carbines for their use (see immediately preceding). However, these numbers do not add up considering the ordering of 2,000 bayonets in 1887.
We currently have no explanation for such discrepancies and would appreciate clarification from anyone with substantiable knowledge.
SPECIFICATIONS, STATISTICS & DATA
M1878 Vetterli Border Guard Carbine
Overall Length: 945mm (37 3/16 in
Barrel Length: 485mm (19 1/8 in)
Weight, empty: 3.3 kg
Rifling: 4-groove; RH, concentric
Magazine: Tube magazine under barrel, 5+1 round capacity
Sight: Quadrant, Modell 1878 System Schmidt für Karabiner: ranged from 225m to 600m
OTHER SWISS VETTERLI CARBINES
M1895 Swiss Vetterli Carbine for Border Guards (?)
(Schweizerischer Repetierkarabiner Modell 1895 für Grenzwächterkorps (?))
We are still looking for the correct Swiss Government (possibly Border Guard Corps) nomenclature for this conversion carbine.
To be clear, as we are currently unable to find authoritative sources with which to confirm the actual nomenclature and use of the carbines that we are about to describe. We have settled upon this descriptor for our own clarity and convenience. We await information to allow us to correct this terminology!
The only reference which we have yet found regarding the carbines described in this section is a brief note in Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli which we mentioned above, indicating that 280 examples of M1878 Dragoon Carbines were altered for use by the Border Guards when supplies of the purpose-built M1878 Border guard Carbines were exhausted, and that these pieces “were fitted with a ‘sling loop’ attached at the nosecap.” If that is the case, then it is certainly likely that the Swiss government also may have ordered the production of additional carbines for the Border Guard Corp and Customs officers which would have been more economical to produce by altering existing 2nd line rifles than by manufacturing new carbines.
However, the combination of some features being present on some carbines while being absent on others suggests that some of these carbines might have been assembled from parts overruns rather than conversions of finished rifles. (See the rear sight photo of the Waffenfabrik BERN carbine discussed below!) It seems that very little is absolutely definitive.
The carbines profiled here have just such a ‘sling loop’ as described by Handfeuerwaffen, and are of a quality to suggest official conversion rather than ad hoc individual production.
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES
Of what we tentatively refer to as
M1895 Swiss Vetterli Carbine for Border Guards
These carbines are specifically distinguished by the following features:
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No barrel band, only a heavy nosecap
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The nosecap is well back from muzzle so that the carbine can accept the M1863 or M1871 socket bayonet
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The Front sling band is a bail bolted through the nosecap.
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The Lower sling swivel is conventionally located along the bottom comb of the buttstock
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This carbine retains the elongated, finger spur trigger guard of the M1869/71 infantry rifle
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Checkered forend, similar to the M1869 & M1869/71 Swiss Vetterli rifle series
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Retains the gas vents in the receiver ring of the parent M1869/71 rifle
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The Rear Sight is the Model 1863 quadrant sight (Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli refers to this sight “similar to peabodygewehr”) in use up until 1869 (but now repurposed for use with these carbines).
While there appear to be minor exceptions to all of these features (one examined has no gas vents, another was built on a M1869 receiver rather than a M1869/71 receiver), they all share the great majority of these features with one another. If not, they may well be fakes or one-offs.
When the nosecap had a sling loop/bail installed, the original pin spring previously retaining the nosecap was discarded, with the sling loop transverse screw now serving that duty. Note that there is still room for the M1863 or M1871 Swiss socket bayonet to be mounted.
This part of the carbine is all still M1869/71 infantry rifle.
Original checkered fore end, original transverse forestock key
This is the M1863 pattern sight first employed on M1863/67 & M1864/67 Swiss Milbank-Amsler muzzleloading conversion rifles and later adapted to the M1867 Swiss Peabody rifles.
There are always exceptions! The photo immediately below is most certainly one of these carbines here discussed. But note that it is devoid of gas vents in the receiver ring, which are thought to have only been discarded with the introduction of the M1878 Swiss Vetterli infantry rifles. However, this carbine’s serial number of 146218 (judging from the extensive serial number survey of Swiss Vetterli rifles, stutzers and carbines undertaken in the early 2000s by www.swissrifles.com) indicates that this firearm was built at the very tail end of M1869/71 production. This would have been just as the armory must have been tooling up for building M1878 rifles (which most likely started at serial number ~150xxx). So we have every reason to believe that this example is fully correct.
One of these “M1895 border Guard Carbines” with each and all of the correct features except for gas vent ports.
MARKINGS
The markings which we have come across on various examples of these carbines is from at least three different manufacturers of the parent m1869/71 infantry rifles, suggesting that they were converted from a variety of rifles previously in service and pulled for conversion either randomly, or that perhaps the selection process focused on priorities that ignored the individual makers.
This carbine was originally a M1869/71 infantry rifle built by Waffenfabrik, Bern
This carbine was originally a M1869/71 infantry rifle built by Eidgenössische Montier- Werstätte, Bern
Cordier & Cie only ever built 4,000 Vetterlies, and all of those were M1869/71s. The serial number of this Cordier & Cie “Border Guard Carbine” is squarely within their M1869/71 contract run.
What we denominate a M1895 Border Guard Carbine, built from a Cordier & Cie rifle
Another “exception”: We can’t quite make out the maker listed on the left side of this M1869 (NOT M1869/71) ostensibly M1895 Border Guard carbine. The serial number suggests that it was built by Valentin Sauerbrey, Basel who only ever built a few thousand M1869 infantry rifles, and nothing else.
BAYONET
These carbines, like the M1869/71 rifles from which they were derived, are able to mount both the M1863 and M1871 Swiss socket bayonets
MANUFACTURING DATA
We do not have manufacturing data for this variant.
SPECIFICATIONS, STATISTICS & DATA
We have not yet personally examined such a Swiss Vetterli carbine and do not have definitive specs on one. Below are our best estimates when compared with the rest of the known specs on the known correct Swiss carbines:
“M1895 Swiss Vetterli Carbine for the Border Guard Corp”
Overall Length: ~950 mm
Barrel Length: ~ 485 mm
Weight, empty: ~3.3 kg
Rifling: 4-groove; RH, concentric
Magazine: Tube magazine under barrel, 5+1 (or 6+1) round capacity
Rear Sight: M1863 quadrant sight
Trigger Assembly: M1869 Vetterli rifle trigger system
BUBBAS & FAKES
In comparison with the several hundred thousand Swiss Vetterli infantry rifles and stutzers that were produced over 20 years between 1869 and 1889, Swiss government sourced Vetterli carbines are vanishingly scarce. These two observations give rise to two different kinds of “unofficial” Vetterli carbines: The first kind acknowledges that there are so many thousands and thousands of Vetterli rifles out there that a fair number of them have been chopped down to more-or-less carbine length in one-off examples with wildly varying degrees of craftsmanship. Some are pretty nice even if not official, other just unfortunate. The other “unofficial” kind of Vetterli carbine is the deliberate but unacknowledged fake.
BUBBA’S CARBINES:
Here are some examples of one-off chopped down Vetterli rifles, not official carbines at all:
Actually a very nicely done cut-down M1878 rifle, but not any kind of official Vetterli carbine.
This shortened M1878 is clearly illegitimate as no official Swiss carbines were fitted with the heavy, deeply curved Stutzer/M1878 buttplate or with such a rear sight. Also, the front band arrangement doesn’t match any official carbine.
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A pretty sloppy cut-down M1869/71 rifle.
This would more properly be considered a “sporterized” M1869/71 Vetterli rather than a “carbine.”
VERY QUESTIONABLE/CONCERNING CARBINES
FIRST EXAMPLE:
This carbine was sold at auction as being a “M1870 Swiss Vetterli Police Carbine.”
Seller’s Description: “4/10, SWISS VETTERLI , MODEL: 1870 POLICE CARBINE, CALIBER: 41 SWISS RIM FIRE , BORE IS POOR AND PITTED. BLADE FRONT SIGHT. ADJUSTABLE U NOTCH REAR SIGHT. TWO PIECE FULL MILITARY WOOD STOCKS. CHECKERED FOREARM. STRAIGHT GRIP. SMOOTH STEEL BUTT PLATE. MISSING SWIVELS, MISSING CLEANING ROD. FOREARM IS CRACKED. METAL FINISH TURNED BROWN WITH LIGHT RUST, SCRATCHES, HANDLING MARKS AND WEAR. STOCK SHOWS MARKS, SCRATCHES AND WEAR., ACTION: BOLT ACTION RIFLE , BARREL LENGTH: 24", SERIAL # 106365
OBSERVATIONS:
Barrel length is listed as 24 inches (610mm). Official Swiss Police Carbines did have relatively long barrels (they might probably more correctly be called short-rifles rather than actual carbines) at 737mm, but they did not have 610mm barrels. All Swiss Vetterli carbines other than the M1870 for Police have barrels of between 470 mm and 490 mm.
Further, Swiss government police carbines were fitted with a sling swivel beneath the front band/nosecap and carried the M1863 quadrant rear sight.
The only Swiss carbines to ever be fitted with the M1871 Infantry rifle rear sight were the Konstruktion zwischen Vetterli carbines previously discussed above, which also had checkering and a barrel band plus nosecap. However, those carbines had barrels 486mm in length and were stocked very close to the muzzle.
Maybe this is a Konstruktion zwischen Vetterli carbine, but it is not a Swiss police carbine. Caveat emptor.
SECOND EXAMPLE:
This “carabine” was previously offered for sale at $2,995.00, and we observe that it is now (as of Feb, 2025) currently being offered for sale for $1,695 at both a large online auction site and via consignment at a large firearms dealer’s site.
Seller’s Description: “Swiss model 1871 type II very, very rare carbine. Caliber 10.4x38 RF. 17 3/4" long barrel. This is a model 1871 rifle converted by the Swiss to the type II carbine. It still has the 1871 rifle type rear sight and trigger guard, with the carbine nose cap and forend. The loading port dust cover is still present. Excellent bore. Has about 20% blue with gray to brown patina. The wood is about Excellent. Very scarce carbine and in about excellent condition.”
OBSERVATIONS:
No Swiss Vetterli Carbine had a 17 ¾ inch (445mm) long barrel.
No Swiss Dragoon Carbine, including the M1871 Type II, which was purpose-built and not a converted rifle, had an elongated trigger guard with finger spur. Only the Vetterli Police carbines and the Konstruktion zwischen (Re-constructed) Vetterli carbines had a finger spur, and this is neither of those.
No Vetterli Dragoon carbine had sling swivels, either at the butt or nosecap; they were equipped with a single sling loop fixed to the back of the lower tang.
The only Swiss government carbines produced with the M1869/71 rear sight was the Konstruktion zwischen (Re-constructed) Vetterli carbine which had had a sling swivel mounted beneath a center barrel band.
While not absolute, it appears that Konstruktion zwischen carbines were converted from M1869/71 rifles, without loading gates, and not from M1869 rifles as this one was.
Contra: The sling swivel/bail affixed to what looks like a genuine Swiss carbine front band/nosecap (photos of which are poor wherever found) appears as though it is indeed the correct muzzle end of a Swiss Dragoon carbine, whether M1871 or M1878. However, on all other such carbines we have seen, when the carbine is shortened, the front band/nosecap is retained only by the transverse bail/sling loop screw and the barrel band spring is not re-utilized (see photos of the M1895 Swiss Vetterli Carbine for Border Guards pictured above). As well, from these photos, the stock looks right. This carbine might be genuine, were it not for all of the incongruous features in the list above.
We are willing to be persuaded, but have not yet been. In the meantime, as suggested above, caveat emptor.
ALL OF THE VETTERLI MODELS
This excellent and interesting chart by Jan van Gelderen lays out most of the official Federal Swiss Vetterli Models produced during the service life of Switzerland’s Vetterli firearms.
In addition to following links to other Swiss Vetterlis via the MilitaryRifles.com MAIN Index page / Switzerland, you can also navigate to other Swiss Vetterli pages directly from here:
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
Note that our data and observations were made much more readily comprehensible by the extensive research conducted and compiled by: www.swissrifles.com, the best source on the internet for Schweizerischer Gewehr information. After more than 25 years, still recommend.
REFERENCES & RESOURCES
All manufacturing data referenced on this page is sourced either from direct examination of example Swiss Vetterli arms or from Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli, Bewaffnung und Ausrustung der Schweizer Armee seif 1817, Verlag Stocker-Schmid, AG, Dietikon-Zurich, 1970.
Die Repetiergewehre der Schweiz Die Systeme Vetterli und Schmidt-Rubin, Reinhart, Christain. Kurt Sallaz. Michael am Rhyn, Verlag Stocker-Schmid, 1991 (ISBN 3727671025, 9783727671029. Our understanding is that this book recompiles information from Handfeuerwaffen System Vetterli, above and adds additional information, but we have not yet been able to acquire a copy.
Page Created 3/8/25
Page Updated 3/17/25